Here is a fascinating resource that is really rich in information for any of our YOUsers looking for resources about autism and causes (and solutions). An MIT researcher whose page at the MIT people's website literally says the word 'straightjacket' when referring to the conventional research/publication/education sharing field.

Editing in 2/5/2015 and just short of 2,500 reads of this topic today (2,473) -- I remembered this comment on this thread in the forums when I heard this interview (podcast, very easy to listen to or download and listen to) from December 2014, where Dr Seneff early on explains that agricultural schools' hands are tied about glyphosate research because Monsanto funds them, and MIT is not getting any funding from Monsanto so their hands are not tied and so she is able to do this research.  Answered my question I had in mind when I learned of her and created this comment

... oneradionetwork.com/health/dr-stephanie-seneff-glyphosates-real-reason-sick-fat-december-11-2014/ [10]

She goes on to say why is wheat so toxic now? It's puzzled her that people are not asking it and it's obvious to her it has to be glyphosate.  Wheat is GMO-free (it's hybridized, not genetically modified and BIG difference people HAVE to remember and understand).  They kill the wheat plant with the glyphosate to harvest the plant and it's clear it gets into the wheat (seed/grain) part of the plant and then into the product that is consumed.  

A large part of the increase of the increased use of glyphosate is the "roundup ready" concept on the GMO crops, so then you have the toxic chemicals with the GMO food product combined. Also, 24D is a derivative of Agent Orange that is coming up into more use, and she talks about that too.  The weed is smart and evolves to be resistant, so they have to then add more chemicals, so 24D and glyphosate is now mixed.  "I cannot imagine what it's going to be like in 10 or 15 years" she said.  

She gives the list of products 'Roundup ready' that are affected currently and it included corn, soy and all those products, sugar beets, canola, tobacco, cotton, alfalfa.   Also, the patent for Roundup was up long ago, she thought about 1990, so it's being produced as a chemical by others, mostly China she said, and it made it cheaper and so more used.  Do you see the Catch 22 going on?

I have recently really liked using the OneRadioNetwork website for podcasts.  I used to watch a lot of YouTube videos and then went to a different way of accessing the Internet that has not a ton of data and so videos are 'rare treats' to watch and I'm finding it kind of 'retro' like listening to the radio in the old days and Patrick's website's advertising is even done in a way it's educational and I don't mind the interruptions with the interviewers.  

And he was interviewing Gambel from Thrive this same day. 

1974 glyphosate was introduced into the food chain.  It was the late 1990s when the roundup ready GMOs came in. The model Monsanto sold to the farmers was that Roundup/ glyphosate kills all plants and some microbes and harms no "human cells" as well.  They talk about the pathway that gets disrupts (the shikimate pathway) and it's not present in the human cells BUT it is in cells of things in our gut, which gets the gut biome dysfunctional.  So the GMO roundup ready concept was welcomed by the farmers (who weren't made aware that the gut bacteria animals, including humans, rely upon WAS harmed as they have the shikimate pathway (enzyme).  

Before, the farmers would have to spray the glyphosate on the ground and kill all the plants and wait for the soils to be okay for planting the crop and then they'd plant.  So with GMO seeds you can just plant and then spray and it won't kill the crop (from the GMO seeds produced in concert by Monsanto) but kills everything else.  And again, wheat is not GMO, it's hybridized so they use glyphosate to ease the harvest of wheat and harvest it and the glyphosate is in the grain.  

Hospital discharge data put out by the CDC has interested Dr Seneff lately.  She looks at what diseases are going up or down. Recent history is skyrocking in some things, D deficiency since 2006 skyrocketed and everyone is told to take huge whopper vitamin D pills (encouraging / prescribing supplements because everyone has the deficiency but why is nobody asking why?  D is activiated in the liver by enzymes and what she is seeing is building a profile of a condition that is becasue of the enzyme deficiency in the liver that doesn't activate the vitamin D.  

The vitamin D pill goes into the gut. Receptors in the gut say 'everything's fine' but vitamin D is a signal, so the gut bacteria is mislead thinking the liver is acting fine.  The microbes get in there and turn things off so the pills don't do anything.  They go on to talk about the sun and the energy resource and why animals have been more healthy.  Sulfur is a very early life source of energy and is related to the sun and was here before oxygen, so she's big on sulfur. 

Stories about Russia and China resisting GMO, labeling in Europe about GMO, and she thinks it's unfortunate that the GMO community activists have not emphasized the glyphosate or other chemicals used with the GMOs in their argument.  She won't touch corn unless she's sure it's organic.  The poisons are easy to prove, the GMO is not as easy to prove so the promotion of the use of the pesticides with GMO would be good for people to focus on.  

She hopes China and Russia will 'bring down the house of cards' and we need sustainable agriculture with organic methods.  When she buys food, 100%, spices, beer is 'certified organic'.  It's not easy for the people who are poor and so that she recognized is you have to have the money.  "I have faith in the consumer to turn this around.  The organic industry is booming."

They go on to sugars and how all the sugars are bad. Has to do with sugar beets being Roundup ready, and high fructose corn syrup and corn with harvest. So with sweetener you need to find organic certified also for it to be safer to eat.  Bees and colony collapse and glyphosate and other chemicals being sprayed were brought up.  Synergistic toxins with glyphosate she discusses with specifics.  

They go to a caller. Who asks about detoxifying for things she's aware of affecting us, or super foods, to clear things out and help the body to heal.  Humus, charcoal, bentonite (I believe they said, but listen and be sure I heard right) and eating a great deal of sulfur-containing foods and soaking in baths of sulfer-containing epsom salts.  You end up with low sulfate due to glyphosate into the mix.  And it's a key underlying factor in modern diseases, the low sulfate, and then by doing more in the diet you can get many things out of the body. 

What about if you are traveling and aren't able to get 'organic' for sure and taking sulfur supplement that is sold on this radio network and then the epsom salt baths.  In China you cannot get organic which is a problem. 

Another emailing in about DDT is the next question taken.  She does not recommend bringing DDT back and it's still causing problems because it breaks down so slowly -- very toxic.  Maybe not as bad as glyphosate, she doesn't know. (Again, remember what she said earlier about consumers and pushing back and purchasing organic certified.)

There are ways to protect yourself from spraying in huge ways and there are few people working in the fields anymore so we need to bring people back to working in the fields.  The farmers can make more money if they spray for weeds than having people pulling (or otherwise spading to get rid of I add since I am an experienced gardener of the organic kind way back in the 1970's!). 

China started rejecting corn from the US and huge amounts of corn was shipped and then turned around and lots of lawsuits of who's at fault and who's to pay.  The corn that wasn't bought as being engineered with this gene got 'drift' from GMO corn and that was what started the resistance in China.  

Organic wheat didn't have much less glyphosate in an article that was asked about by Patrick.  The roundup is drifting and it's in the air, water, manure.  The organic regulation for manure is something she admits needing to look into.  And alfalfa is one of the big GMO crops as roundup ready so those get consumed by the cows.  

They discuss tobacco specifically at this point and the high (good) sulfur in tobacco and then how the research on tobacco smoking is needing to have the toxic chemicals of the commercial products included and what native people had and we can have is likely not harmful as people think and likely has beneficial properties (such as the sulfur she mentioned).  

Another commercial break and then the details about Canadian woman and family and Living Libations, and essential oil kits, and aroma therapy and the book they have and gift-giving ideas for health.  Organic and kits, from mostly Europe. A real 'art' to essential oils.  Beauty care is the icon to click on at the website. Things for all the body parts.  And even chocolate! 

So back to interviewing Dr Seneff and she laughs about her husband forcing her to get off of the glyphosate focus she says she is eating and breathing.  China is confused and other countries, about foods and they're getting soy from the West and people are getting sick. She went to a conference with a Chinese audience and there is a movement there and industries there trying to give misinformation just as we have here.  And the dichotomy then is in every country.  

They had all these small farmers and they're being disenfranchised and displace by cheap imports from the West, such as the soil from the West.  Huge increases in autism, obesity and large numbers so they might be able to see it more quickly and over less time (than occurred in the West/US). We were like the frog in the slowly boiling water and they'll hopefully be able to see and jump out.  The coinciding of the time and changes in their health is more obvious.  China is a very important manufacturer of glyphosate, since it's no longer under patent of Monsanto.  1.5 billion people getting sick in China like has happened in the US' population, it's going to be a big problem.  

They should face up to it's really an endocrine problem from these toxic chemicals because we can store toxins in the fat cells. You get rid of the fat and the toxins come out.  Benzenes and many others, but glyphosates are so obviously matching with correlation of time of glyphosate and autism rates.  

Inhibiting the ability to digest nutrients due to messing up the gut bacteria.  The liver and kidney get stressed, and the pancreas; all these things are key to getting nutrients into your body. So that's how it works.  

Converting sulfur to sulfate is discussed -- impaired sulfur metabolism is a question asked.  She got emails from people telling her they couldn't eat sulfur, it's that the glyphosate is a trainwreck for the metabolism and the whole sulfur system is messed up.  So an overgrowth of a microbe in autism is what she brings in to talk about next.  Hibernating animals end up with hydrogen sulfate gas, and that is what can happen in people with the autism stuff.  But Patrick said not one person has had a problem with the sulfur they sell as supplement on his website. 

The methylation pathway is brought up.  It pulls you away from methylation, and undermethylation in the brain creates a total shift and likely is involved in dementia as well as autism as she knows about.  

Another question about Australia and rice and GMO question, so this person is not understanding what Dr Seneff had said and she didn't pick up on that at first but then she did.  Arsenic is the problem in rice and particularly in what's grown in the American south.  She's not aware of rice and glyphosate use but she is aware Australia uses huge amounts of glyphosate.  

People with celiac can eat wheat-based products in Europe but not America as he asked about the Eikorn wheat. Hugely reduced symptoms of inflammatory bowel using organic Eikorn /ancient grain.  The wheat in the US hybrid and it is conceiveable it's as much the organic factor or toxic chemical / glyphosate in non organic .. she thinks the organic part of the study was more a factor than it was Eikorn/ anciety wheat in the study.  

She says how long we'll have GMO as a problem and how long the soil will take to get healthy again if we were and when we will stop manipulating it. She suspects agriculture is a major cause of global warming and not just the fossil fuels which are the focus. 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  You can't avoid some things but you can with your food.  Harder with air (or she says water too but that is something I suggest people START with as it's relatively easy and only ONE thing to focus on initially).  

They end with something anecdotal someone emailed in with and he says how they bring her back every few months.  And she pleasantly hops off.  She's just so pleasant to listen to and I hope this has helped readers here look over what is at the link AND you'll GO LISTEN. 

Many who study outside the box and treat patients outside the box will know there is a belief that children with autism and adults with neuro Lyme/neuro borreliosis basically have the same underlying things causing the symptoms, and the same treatments are effective in both populations of patients. So when a research study is about one, it might also stand to reason that the other population group would want to take notice too. And when it's about these common conditions that are growing so rapidly in numbers of cases, I would hope people who want to think preventively will take note of the information as well.  

Dr Seneff's research is finding that autism has to do with an interplay of aluminum and the chemical that is in Monstant's product Roundup (glyphosate). Recently an article had swept around Facebook that had to do with wheat sensitivities being proven to be from the glyphosate chemical being used on the crops. (Now keep in mind this is maybe in addition to the changes that have occurred with the hybridization of wheat which is what other researchers and experts have proclaimed ... they might all be right, or it's a combination of some or these theories and not just one OR another thing.

This means that Dr Ross' advise, above is good advise and right as well, etc., though for different reasons in some cases, than what he gives.

We're all growing in what we learn and then tell others, with fabulous and innovative researchers like Dr. Seneff now in the mix and able to get the word out increasingly -- the more well known she becomes, the more people will listen!

It's an organically changing process and hopefully we can link efficiently together to learn faster than we would otherwise, as so much new information is out there now it's actually problematic. Hence we try to sort out the gems that might otherwise be unfound, and present them and do our in depth work at Lumigrate but not necessarily adding something new every day to keep it 'fresh' because it might take a week for a person to learn what is at just this one link I'm providing here. Years to study what is already on Lumigrate in our cache of topics. People who have been trained to want sound bites and short sentence answers are just not going to be able to solve the complex problems of what's making people unwell today. It's that simple! 

I encourage anyone reading to take the journey on this link and go see the presentations Dr. Seneff has made, the papers she has published and what is said at this page about her relative to the straightjacket of medical information research.

There is ALSO a topic there on a line that is about a Monsanto and a journal which is influenced in what it publishes. (see below)

This is really important for people to understand how it has come about over the years and decades that so many smart, well meaning people were basically unaware for so long about these things. If you're one of them who today is just waking up to this, or it's still sinking in, congratulations on getting to this point. It's a hurdle to get over, particularly for those who were taking in what they believed to be sincerely the best information available and advising others in accordance, i.e. doctors and other providers and experts.

It can be like a death or other loss of innocence, coming to realize how much our selves and loved ones have been harmed by corporate greed in BigAgri and BigMedi/Pharma.  It's similar to when someone realizes they were abused by a loved one as a child and harmed by it, but as they were growing up they had nothing else to compare it to and it gradually crept in and molested their well-being and brought them down in wellness level. People can correct their traumas from emotional and physical abuse, and people can correct the damage done to their bodies, including the gut/ intestines -- the all-important gut! And learn to eat differently, do other lifestyle changes and etc... supplements, exercise for detoxing, on and on. 

But from the truth, with the motivation to do the WORK, people can walk the path to health and well-being and people can create the new ways and new realities and wellness levels.  Here's the link for Dr. Seneff's area at the MIT website: 

people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ [11]

Live and Learn. Learn and Live Better ! Mardy  

Here's an excerpt from what you'll find at the link to encourage you more than my maybe piquing your interest! For each item I've copied and pasted here, at the site (link above) about Dr Seneff, there are links to the powerpoints, slides, videos, papers, etc. at each item. I have removed them here in order to encourage YOU to GO to the link, above and see them ALL. Delve into these resource gems that I am uncovering along the way and bringing here as the BEST stuff that I think people might not easily find on their own!  

Stephanie Seneff is a Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. She received the B.S. degree in Biophysics in 1968, the M.S. and E.E. degrees in Electrical Engineering in 1980, and the Ph.D degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science in 1985, all from MIT. For over three decades, her research interests have always been at the intersection of biology and computation – developing a computational model for the human auditory system, understanding human language so as to develop algorithms and systems for human computer interactions, as well as applying natural language processing (NLP) techniques to gene predictions. She has published over 170 refereed articles on these subjects, and has been invited to give keynote speeches at several international conferences. She has also supervised numerous Master's and PhD theses at MIT. In 2012, Dr. Seneff was elected Fellow of the International Speech and Communication Association (ISCA). 

In recent years, Dr. Seneff has focused her research interests back towards biology. She is concentrating mainly on the relationship between nutrition and health. Since 2011, she has written 10 papers (7 as first author) in various medical and health-related journals on topics such as modern day diseases (e.g., Alzheimer, autism, cardiovascular diseases), analysis and search of databases of drug side effects using NLP techniques, and the impact of nutritional deficiencies and environmental toxins on human health. 

Contact Information

New! Presentation on glyphosate on May 24, at AutismOne in Chicago 

New! Presentation on glyphosate on April 28, 2014 hosted by the MIT and Wellesley Alumni Associations

New! Presentation on April 12, 2014 at Unite For Sight's 11th annual Global Health & Innovation Conference. 

New! Presentation on March 26, 2014 at International Symposium on Vaccines in Nice, France: A Role for the Pineal Gland in Neurological Damage Following Aluminum-adjuvanted Vaccination

New! Presentation on March 16, 2014 at Physicians' Roundtable Conference in Tampa, FL. 

Presentation on Oct 16, 2013 hosted by the Wellesley chapter of the League of Women Voters. (Video and slides)

Compilation (by Rosemary Mason MB ChB FRCA) of data worldwide on effects of glyphosate on human health.

Former Monsanto employee put in charge of GMO papers at journal
Scientific journal withdraws Seralini paper on Roundup toxicity

Autism Rates and Glyphosate Application Rates to Corn and Soy in the U.S. as A Function of Time.

Slides Presented to MIT Faculty at CSAIL Offsite Meeting on May 17, 2013, on autism and glyphosate. 


Papers on Nutrition and Disease 

Note: Entropy is an Open Access journal that is willing to publish novel hypotheses regarding biochemical and biophysical phenomena, which can help the community break out of its current straitjacketed research paradigm. The papers below, many of which were published in Entropy's Special Issue on Biosemiotic Entropy: Disorder, Disease, and Mortality, cover several topics relating environmental toxins to disease, as well as the revolutionary concept that endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) synthesizes sulfate as well as nitric oxide. The papers were subjected to rigorous review by experts who were not beholden to industry influence. These papers collectively explain how widespread cholesterol sulfate deficiency throughout the body is behind most modern diseases and conditions.

1. Anthony Samsel and Stephanie Seneff, "Glyphosate's Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases" Entropy 2013, 15(4), 1416-1463; doi:10.3390/e15041416 (LINK PROVIDED)

AND MANY MORE SO PLEASE GO TO THE WEBSITE AT THE ABOVE LINK, thank you! Mardy

There are a couple of topics at Lumigrate which I've developed because I really think what the authors have to some of the best information I've seen in books about nutrition, genetics, etc. -- things that support and complement Load Theory, above --- They'll have different list of 6 things than Dr Ross would, such as grains and legumes. Here's a link to the topic about The Mood Cure by Julia Ross. Quite a thread here with the last name Ross, eh? 

www.lumigrate.com/forum/mood-cure-julia-ross-ma-my-new-top-o-list-recommendation-most-everyone [16]

That ^ is in the forum that is titled the Lumigrate bookshelf, and if you then look at the forum if you go, you'll see I have another topic about The UltraMind Solution. On that thread I weave in Wheat Belly, another best seller of recent years. And I also very much like what Grain Brain's author, Dr. Perlmutter, has to say.  However, in order to really encourage a look at what Julia Ross has at her website and in her book, I'm only giving the link here to it for starters. You can go on from there, I've given you keywords to Search here at Lumigrate if you want to see what other topics I have created about other experts' opinion has to say.

Starting simple as Dr Ross has it is a great starting point and might be all that a family or person can muster. Honestly, many people don't even get it that much 'together', unfortunately. There's a catch 22 with people who aren't functioning well not being able to get it together to get themselves turned around.  Most people will have very good results with what Dr Ross has suggested. And then from there, I suggest people keep going. The sky is the limit, and you will reap what you sow/plant. 

Live and learn. Learn and live better! ~ Mardy

It's good to see what people post on Facebook and then pick some of the highlights to bring here for YOUsers of Lumigrate to be able to easily see.  Dr. Stephanie Seneff had shared something saying 'more good news' and it was something I'd seen this week about record numbers of US farmers going to NON-GMO seeds! One of her FB friends had shared this link in the comments / conversation that followed.

Here's the link: www.oapublishinglondon.com/article/1368 [18] and the citation (you'll see it was published mid-2014, so is relatively recent): Shaw CA, Sheth S, Li D, Tomljenovic L. Etiology of autism spectrum disorders: Genes, environment, or both? OA Autism 2014 Jun 10;2(2):11.

The conclusion of the paper which I suggest YOUsers take the link to and read in it's entirity (and it makes reference/mentions Stephanie Seneff's research, by the way), is a good snippet to bring here for YOU to read. 

Further, given that a strong adjuvant effect can overcome even genetic resistance to autoimmunity, it is likely that an increasing number of individuals, regardless of their genetic background, will react adversely if exposures to compounds with immune adjuvant properties exceed a certain threshold. Prior genetic susceptibilities may in such cases only determine the degree of severity of manifestations of the disease spectrum, rather than being the principal driving factor in their increase.

The fact that as many as 2% of 6 to17 year olds in the U.S. currently show some form of autism (representing over a 70% increase since 2007), argues in favour of this hypothesis. No genetic susceptibility can account for such a dramatic increase in such a short time span as genes in a population are highly unlikely to change that rapidly. Notably, studies on twins have now shown that common environmental factors account for 55% of their risk for developing autism while genetic susceptibility explains only 37% of cases.

Because the prenatal environment and early postnatal environment are shared between twins and because overt symptoms of autism emerge around the end of the first year of life, it is reasonable that at least some of the environmental factors contributing to the risk of autism exert their deleterious neurodevelopmental effect during this early period of life. Indeed, important aspects of human brain development take place during the first two postnatal years, when the immature brain is extremely vulnerable to neurotoxic and immunotoxic insults.

This is also a period during which children worldwide are routinely exposed to the majority of Al-adjuvanted vaccines. Al is both a neurotoxin and an immunotoxin and there is now sufficient evidence from both human and animal studies that cumulative exposure to this adjuvant is not as benign as previously assumed. Because infants represent the most vulnerable population that is universally and routinely exposed to Al adjuvants, a more rigorous evaluation of its potentially adverse neurodevelopmental impacts is needed.

The LONG awaited book by Durango, Colorado provider Shauna Young, who has successfully reversed symptoms in hundreds of cases of 'this stuff' that I call it -- autism, Lyme, fibromyalgia, this, that, the other thing, on and on, etcetera was sent to me within a day of it arriving at Dr Young's office.  Available at Amazon for $24.95, and with much information long-ago put online for NO CHARGE by her organization, I highly suggest taking this link to the topic at The Lumigrate Bookshelf Forum.  IF you have a mouth and you eat and drink, whether you identify yourself as having one or more of the disorders or not.  You'll see why I call it 'the stuff we all have' when you go. 

 www.lumigrate.com/forum/erasing-autism-spectrum-balance-protocol-shauna-k-young-phd-ctn-and-stuff-we-all-have [20]

THE HISTAMINE (MAST CELL) DEPRESSION LINK,  posted May 17, 2014 at The Low Histamine Chef dot com, is an excellent topic to get the information about mast cells / histamine woven into this topic, which has had a good number of reads, and which I continue to recommend to people as a resource, increasingly so. Link, below as well as the article to encourage people to go to Yasmina's website and see what all is there, by seeing the entirity of this one topic.

There were also some good comments that I'll encourage people go to the source to read ALL of them, I'm transferring a couple of them that 'dovetail' with the above information. Therefore,  I'm going to 'set the stage' on this comment with them.  

A reader posted a comment which included: "A year and a half ago I was so sick (showing signs of schizophrenia), my husband and mother considered having me committed.

I told my doctor that I believed I had a medical reason for everything that was happening to me. She pretty much laughed at me and said, "Reassure the patient. Reassure the patient!" They did a urinalysis and found I had a UTI.

I quit my job and reduced some other stressors in my life. I am much better now but still suffer from inflammation, brain fog, inability to concentrate, bouts of depression, and general malaise. There are so many diets, not to mention terms I don't understand. Where do I begin? Are there medical tests that will tell me what is wrong with me? Please advise!"

Another reader's response included: I would recommend looking into Lyme disease. I have all the symptoms you listed, and some others too (including histamine intolerance). Keep in mind there is a strong correlation between Lyme and food sensitivities, especially gluten and casein... check out Dr. Joseph Mercola's articles on Lyme, and his interviews with Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt.

THEN, another reader, Christine, asked: "Have you also looked into pyrrole disorder? It goes hand in hand with histamine issues and mast cell issues, and everything inbetween those thigns."  Yasmina replied "No, not yet!"  I find it interesting that she'd not yet learned of pyroluria / pyrrole disorder if this is her area of expertise and focus for preparing all the materials she has.  I liked the way she said she was so sure of something she didn't even put time into studying it. And then was motivated to study and thus had something to contribute from it.  I've found the same to be true with me, relative to histamine. I'd learned of it in a backwards way from what Yasmina's process of discovery and learning was. 

I'd found out about pyrrole disorder / pyroluria in March of 2013 by looking into alcohol treatment on the Front Range of Colorado for someone who asked me for assistance in that area as they had been involved in a case I'd had in 2010 and 2011 where I'd basically seen that the man diagnosed with Lewy bodies dementia appeared to be misdiagnosed and therefore mistreated with powerful psycho-pharmaceuticals. His brain imaging showed the improvements when the doctors collaborated, tested, and decided -- upon my initial recommendation -- to consider he'd been misdiagnosed.  

I thought 'that's the missing link' when I looked up what pyroluria was; I was only to look it up because I was transcribing a marketing video of the treatment facility's clinical director, who didn't speak the word clearly. I had to Search the Internet to figure out what word he was even saying.  AHA! I found it and WOW, look at that symptom list, that is the missing link to explain why I see mental health / behavioral health symptoms and issues in the families of people who have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etcetera.  

The patients with other disorders typically had supportive families who believed they had the medical condition they were diagnosed with; in these families, myself included, there was a lack of compassion, a lack of looking into what the condition was and being supportive and helpful to the patient, and often of outright sabbotage. I've shown people the way, above, to follow the work of Julia Ross via her books, website, etc.

She wrote The Mood Cure in the early part of this century / millenia, and had just found out about pyroluria. I've put a LOT of information about pyroluria / pyrrole disorder on Lumigrate because I found it so important in understanding the progression of how things get from healthy to chronically unwell, and the nutritional deficiencies that come from it.  It was while studying pyroluria that I learned of methylation issues, and it was while talking to a nutrition advisor in the Boulder, Colorado area about if she'd take people I'd send her way to work remotely by phone if she felt comfortable with the individual's case, that I was to become more aware of histamine issues.  That was in 2014.  So we're all having to work at learning 'all this stuff'.  

Ultimately, there's more which I'll present in a follow up comment, which perhaps takes us one more layer down the onion to find the underlying causes, ultimately naturally you want to know all of them and 'the root' or 'the core'.  I stumbled upon that, potentially, in August of 2014 and didn't really put my butt in the chair specific to it until Christmas, when someone in the group studying the information and protocol found a patent trail that, to me, confirmed that this group of laypeople who'd studied the work of a man in his 2014-started Facebook group, was really onto something.  I felt like I might be seeing medical history in the making by being in the group and seeing what was unfolding. And with his permission, I've developed a lot of content about it on Lumigrate this year.  

But I like this source, and I thought this was a very interesting and easy to 'relate to' article, and allows people to consider what else they might wish to be doing with diet to do what the body is needing. And do less of what the body is having adversity from. 

The comments, you'll see when you go to the website and the following link, then talks about the GAPS diet, and leaky gut, food sensitivity testing is mentioned, etc. And then this, from Yasmina: "Leaky gut is basically a mast cell issue according to the latest research. I saw something interesting the other day about quercetin being effective for leaky gut because of the mast cell link. I had SIBO, cleared it up through diet alone, and didn't have any major relief in symptoms."

So I think there's a really good resource here, please take the following link to 'see the sites', as I say:

thelowhistaminechef.com/the-histamine-mast-cell-depression-link/ [22]

THE HISTAMINE (MAST CELL) DEPRESSION LINK,  posted May 17, 214

While you could say it’s pretty normal to be down in the dumps over having been sick for most of your life, I’ve often found it interesting that an impressive number of us with histamine intolerance, mast cell activation disorders and mastocytosis appear to suffer from crushing depression.

So convinced was I of the link, that I never really bothered to look it up for myself, until it dropped into my lap, as it did a few months ago when I shared the news that researchers in Finland had successfully treated schizophrenia with antihistamines, rather than anti-psychotics (read my post here [23]). This wasn’t news to me, given that I had previously experienced almost ALL the schizophrenia symptoms during high histamine episodes/attacks. Yes, even hallucinations.

I know, what more could a gal ask for?

An increase in the number of emails I get about a possible depression link finally lit a fire under my butt and I instinctively knew that NIH-funded mast cell/histamine researcher Dr Theoharides [1] was the man to approach on this. His groundbreaking research has linked mast cells/histamine to: multiple sclerosis, autism, cancer, Parkinson’s, Alzheimers, depression, schizophrenia and more [2].

(Disclosure – I am a huge fan of his work and he recently attended my first wellness retreat in Colorado [24], where he treated attendees to one hour consults. Please do donate to his research so that we may all continue to benefit from his hard work – visit the website listed below, clicking on the box “I have additional comments about my gift” and “adding for Dr. Theoharides’ research” in the dialogue box: https://tuftsgiving.org/giving-form.html?id=1&appeal_code=U0105/ [25]).

He’s a busy guy, but sent over a bucket load of research (most of it too complicated for the layperson – myself included) and this line: Mast cells are definitely associated with depression due to release of cytokines that affect brain function.”

His research clearly shows why those of us with mast cell activation/histamine intolerance disorders are more likely to suffer from depression and other psych conditions – the kind that are likely to get us a psych (mis)diagnosis, rather than a mast cell histamine one. As I did, starting with simple anxiety diagnosis for the shaking I was experiencing, progressing to depression after I was prescribed downers (Xanax), then into bipolar as the SSRI drove me into complete manic episodes and then down, down, down the rabbit hole for 8 years before I finally re-claimed my sanity through diet [26].

According to a growing body of research, by Dr Theoharides and others, pro-inflammatory brain cytokines are implicated in depression  [3]. In English: mast cells cause inflammation in the brain, which causes depression. For all of you histamine intolerance folks: there’s histamine in the body already, stored in mast cells, until we need it for healing and other important body functions, and there’s the histamine we get from foods. More on that later…

Dr Theoharides notes that the role of inflammation in neuropsychiatric diseases was long suspected, but new findings report decreased mitochondrial function in as many as 60% of autism patients, “a neuropsychiatric developmental disorder showing many similarities with schizophrenia…[4]”

In short, neuroinflammation, involving mast cells, can manifest in many different ways. In some people it can cause disorders involving a loss of speech (autism) or psych disorders (schizophrenia, bipolar, major depression), or demyelination disorders like multiple sclerosis. Please understand, I’m not saying that autism is a psychiatric disorder.

[27]

Dr Theoharides chart

Dr T concludes, in an editorial for the Journal for Clinical Psychopharmacology, that: “there is no doubt that available evidence indicates brain mitochondrial dysfunction and heightened immune response in neuropsychiatric diseases. However, it is still hard to understand how in certain cases these changes affect mostly behaviour, whereas in others they lead to loss of speech (autism) or demyelination and mostly neurological problems (MS).[5]”

In my interview with her, pioneering mast cell doctor Marianna Castells [28] shared her discovery (along with her teacher) of mixed organic brain syndrome:

“The cognitive changes consisted of diminished attention and memory, and the affective changes of anger, irritability, and, to a lesser extent, depression. These manifestations fluctuated with the level of disease activity, and appeared in some cases to respond to histamine antagonists and disodium cromoglycate, medications used to control the excessive mast cell activity. It is important for psychiatrists to be aware that mental status changes can represent psychiatric manifestations of mastocytosis, a readily treatable medical disorder. [6]”

The psychological manifestations of mast cell/histamine disorder can be so extreme, as to be heartbreaking. In our interview, Dr Castells relayed the story of a woman committed to an institution by her family. She exhibited bipolar type tendencies and clouded thinking. By chance the woman fell over (not from a great height) and broke her collarbone. Someone was smart enough to wonder why such a young woman would break bones so easily (the majority of mast cell peeps have bone density issues due to disrupted calcium absorption), and so Castells was called in to consult.

A quick round of testing revealed that her tryptase was elevated, in addition to her prostaglandins, which, according to Castells, are one of the reasons for brain fog, or “mixed brain syndrome” as she and her predecessor dubbed the condition 20 years ago. After a short treatment with mast cell meds and antihistamines, the woman was “cured” of her psych issues and released to her family.

All I can say is that I can’t stop thanking my lucky stars that I found my depression cure through diet. Not a low histamine diet, but rather a high nutrient diet rich in anti-inflammatory and antihistamine foods. The kind of diet that helps prevent cancer, Alzheimer’s and certainly in my case, lifted the life-long depression that inspired doctors to prescribe meds that flushed the best years of my life down the toilet, the depression that caused me, in my darkest days, to harm my body in an effort to feel anything through the numbness, the impenetrable haze of ambivalence towards my precarious non-existence.

Please don’t wait almost a decade, as I did, to examine your mast cells, histamine levels, and really, truly lift a microscope to your diet.

I’ll be interviewing Dr Janice Joneja this coming week – don’t forget to sign up to my newsletter [29] to make sure you don’t miss it! We’ll be discussing plant derived sources of the histamine-lowering enzyme diamine oxidase (DAO). You’ll also receive information about upcoming histamine wellness retreats and workshops in Europe and the United States, to get great freebies like antihistamine and anti-inflammatory recipes and lifestyle tips. 

The Anti-cookbook [30], while it doesn’t treat any conditions, due to its high nutrient, antihistamine and anti-inflammatory ingredients, has been instrumental in helping me feed myself on a limited diet. It features a six page list of antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods. It comes in regular and Paleo. 

The Low Oxalate Cookbook [30] features antihistamine and anti-inflammatory rich recipes. 

Don’t miss the Low Histamine Beauty Survival Guide [31] for non-toxic beauty tips, the skinny on histamine releasing (mast cell degranulating) beauty ingredients, antihistamine and anti-inflammatory beauty alternatives and the top brands natural brands I’ve found.

Take a peek at my other low histamine and antihistamine cookbooks [31] for more high nutrient recipes.

If you’ve found this information useful, I’d appreciate your support (at no extra cost to you!) – please check out my online store for your health foods, supplements, kitchen items and beauty product purchases. Affiliate sales through my online store go towards maintaining the website, funding travel to interviews and purchasing all the lovely foods for my free online recipes. You’ll find these items in the “Shop with us” drop down menu on my homepage [32].  

Please don’t forget antihistamine, pain killing foods can still hurt us, so please always check with your doctor before adding new foods to your diet. 

————-REFERENCES————-

[1] www.mastcellmaster.com [33]

[2] www.mastcellmaster.com [33]

[3 + 4] http://www.mastcellmaster.com/documents/brain-health/J-Clin-Psychopharm-2011-Brain-Inflammation.pdf

[5]  http://www.mastcellmaster.com/documents/brain-health/J-Clin-Psychopharm-2011-Brain-Inflammation.pdf

[6] http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/48/6/437.short [34]

This has been a process, for all of us trying to figure out our health issues and trying the various things. I've long used the 'onion model' as an analogy, as you're peeling away the layers of the onion and looking for yet another layer that you can do something to and then not have the symptoms that you see in the layers going out from there.  Ultimately the 'root cause' has to be somewhere, the core where the root is attached at the bottom of the onion.  

There is a group headed by a man named Steve Beddingfield, a hillbilly researcher he calls himself, outside of Ashville, North Carolina, which I think is really onto something.  I want everyone to know about it and to consider taking the time to go look into it.  This blog topic is a good place to start.  

While Steve does not promote eating any kind of particular diet while you are reversing symptoms and healing the underlying causes, because he believes this is the root cause and the other things don't need to be done, I and others believe that it's cumulative what the body has to be addressing and if  you do the best you can with the food and drink you present to support and not hinder it, you'll have the results show in symptoms, or lack thereof.  So it's perfect to tie this information in here at this point. I'm pleased to see so many people are reading the topic thread this is on, and there have been as many reads just this year of the information about Steve Beddingfield's work as the entire time this thread has been on Lumigrate kicking off the Dr Marty Ross diet tips (about 3,000).  It's as cutting edge as it gets, and I wanted to be certain YOUsers could find it by making my way around our subjects that apply and guiding YOUsers with a link and a cue to 'there's MORE, look here'.  So here YOU are.  

www.lumigrate.com/blog/what-i-want-every-mother-and-others-know-then-go-there-cause-all-problems-presented-emerging-re [36]

Live and learn. Learn and live better! ~ Mardy

What is SIBO? 

Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth - SIBO

Everybody's trying to make a buck off of this, it seems, so I'm going to pick an off-the-beaten path source for starting things out for explanation / definition (From Patrick Strudwick, The Daily Mail, in 2012). I recall many years where I looked pregnant too, but only at night after dinner and my husband would rub my back when we'd go to bed and I'd feel better from that, fall asleep, exhausted, and wake up the next morning my skinny, size 6-8 self! Where did the gas go? I didn't pass any ....

And then another 'day at the races' would go on where I didn't realize I was about to have a health collapse where one day I'd wake up and just not be able to get out of bed.

I'd spend the summer being unable to walk more than a hundred feet or so, have to rest if climbing a flight of stairs, have to rely upon my husband for cooking meals as I'd pass out in the kitchen if I stood for longer than just long enough to stir something a little bit. I would be referred to an ENT by my GP, who gave me good advise to keep moving despite the exhaustion, to take a mild antidepressant to keep the brain from going further off-track, and thankfully a close friend insisted I go to a chiropractor she knew of, and that was the start of my recovery which allowed well-being enough to get into and through the OT program and end up being able to provide what I do with Lumigrate today. (As well as a LOT of other things that came together, too.)

Now, people can have the answers at their fingertips on the Internet, so lucky they are, as am I. I'm continuing to put pieces together, find dots to connect, and hope others find it helpful and of value:

For ten years I looked pregnant. Between 1997 and 2007 my bloated belly peered over my waistband as I tried to hold it in. I wasn’t overweight or malnourished. Instead, doctor after doctor gave me the same diagnosis: irritable bowel syndrome.

About one in ten people have – or think they have – this horrible condition. Its chief symptoms, apart from bloating, are constipation and diarrhoea, with pain, fatigue and sometimes depression joining in.

...

...

...

‘SIBO is a condition whereby the small intestine, which normally has very few bacteria in it, becomes colonised with too many bacteria. In healthy people, stomach acid and the waves of muscular contraction in the small intestine flush most bacteria into the bowel. But with SIBO that doesn’t happen.’

Why? Mostly, Dr Penman says, it is because of four different types of underlying conditions. The first is when stomach acid is not produced because of gastric surgery, such as a bypass, or old age.

Another vulnerable group is people who’ve had multiple operations on their intestines with parts cut out or joined together, such as those with Crohn’s disease. Thirdly there are people who have other gut disorders. And, finally, people who have had multiple courses of antibiotics.

A huge proportion of those who think they have IBS actually suffer from SIBO 

‘People with recurrent chest or urinary infections may have had lots of antibiotics,’ says Dr Penman. ‘This can upset the delicate ecosystem in the bowel – the balance of different types of bacteria – which then allows certain bacteria groups to proliferate.’

In my early 20s I had a succession of antibiotics for tonsillitis – eventually they were removed – which may explain my diagnosis. But, says Dr Penman, there are also those who do not fall into any of these categories who think they have IBS but test positive for SIBO, with none of the underlying factors.

‘We get into the area of could SIBO be the cause of IBS?’ he says. ‘The answer is that it is unclear. It’s difficult to tease out – the causes of IBS are multi-factorial: stress, food intolerances, and in some cases, bacterial overgrowth.’

A 2005 study published in the journal of Alimentary Pharmacology and Therapeutics found a staggering link between the condition: 98 IBS sufferers were given the hydrogen breath test for SIBO and 64 tested positive. This suggests a huge proportion of those who think they have IBS actually suffer from SIBO. 

However, Dr Penman points out: ‘A more recent study found that some people with IBS give false positive results for the SIBO breath test. The reason is that what they really have wrong with them is the time it takes for stuff to go from the stomach to the bowel is too fast. So when we give them lactulose for the breath test, it reaches the bowel too quickly, which causes them to excrete hydrogen in their breath, so we get a positive result. My estimate would be that in fact no more than 10 per cent of IBS sufferers actually have SIBO.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2089942/Think-youre-bloated-IBS-It-just-Small-Intestinal-Bacterial-Overgrowth-easier-manage.html#ixzz3lNPanCq2 [38] 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter [39] | DailyMail on Facebook [40]

Known since the 1960's......

In the setting of SIBO, there is expansion of the site of bacterial fermentation into the small intestine. H2S along with other gases are generated in this region, a region not well equipped to detoxify this toxic gas. Hydrogen is produced by gut bacteria during fermentation of food. Hydrogen is converted to either methane by methanogens or reduced to hydrogen sulfide by sulfate reducing bacteria.

H2S is normally rapidly absorbed by colon and detoxified by conversion to nonvolatile thiosulfate (Levitt MD, Furne J, Springfield J, Suarez F, DeMaster E. Detoxification of hydrogen sulfide and methanethiol in the cecal mucosa. J Clin Invest. 1999; 104(8): 1107-17). Although colonic detoxification system for H2S is uniquely effective, the small intestine is not similarly equipped (detoxification capacity of the colon > 2Ox that of ileum) (Furne J, Springfield J, Koenig T, DeMaster E, Levitt MD). Oxidation of hydrogen sulfide and methanethiol to thiosulfate by rat tissues: a specialized function of the colonic mucosa. Biochem Pharm 2001; 62(2):255-9).

In the setting of SIBO, there would be 2 sources OfH2S: endogenous and exogenous or bacteria-derived H2S. The physiologic effects of H2S in the cardiovascular system include 1. reduction in blood pressure in rats by opening ATP-dependent potassium channels, 2. Relaxation of vasculature by H2S is directed at smooth muscle cells and 3. Vasoactive effects OfH2S is not reduced by inhibitor of soluble guanylate cyclase (suggesting that the relaxatory effect is not dependent on NO) ( Zhao W, Zhang J, Lu Y, Wang R. The vasorelaxant effect ofϋ(i)S as a novel endogenous gaseous K(ATp) channel opener. EMBO J 2001; 20:6008-6016).

Since the luminal concentration OfH2S reaches 3000 microM within the large intestine, the small intestine would be exposed to this high concentration of H2S in the setting of SIBO where the bacterial fermentation would take place in both the small and large intestine. Such high amounts of bacteria-derived H2S could then be exerting supra-physiologic effects leading to vasodilatation in both systemic and pulmonary circulatory systems and the findings of hepatopulmonary syndrome.

Here is a recipe combining turmeric, ginger, black pepper and lemon for SIBO.

As an FtsZ inhibitor turmeric is a safe herb for treating infections including SIBO.

Ftsz is bacterial cell division protein found in bacteria, plants and algae. It is not found in humans.

In this context, filamentous temperature sensitive protein Z (FtsZ), an essential bacterial cytokinesis protein, is a highly promising therapeutic target since the disruption of cell division would lead to the inhibition/arrest of bacterial infection.

read more [41]

Pepper helps sweep bacteria out of the small intestine and helps increase the bioavailability of turmeric.

Try a cup nightly for two weeks to help relieve SIBO symptoms and reduce gas and bloating. If after two weeks you notice improvement a SIBO test from a SIBO specialist may be in order to help effectively treat and manage SIBO.

Recipe and instructions for 1 cup.

1/4 tsp. fresh ground turmeric

1/2 tsp. fresh grated ginger

1 grind fresh black pepper

5 drops peppermint oil or 1/2 tsp. fresh chopped peppermint

8.5 oz. cup water

Extra to taste

Juice from one half lemon

honey

Instructions

1. In a medium pot, combine the ginger, turmeric, black pepper, and water. Bring to a simmer. Just before it reaches a boil, reduce the heat and gently simmer, covered, for 15 minutes. Remove from the heat and enjoy or let it cool for an iced tea.
2. Add peppermint.

Lemon and honey to taste if desired.

Enjoy!

Neutralizing toxins in the small intestine is extremely important in treating SIBO / small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Hydrogen sulfide gas is produced directly from bacteria, fungi, and actinomycetes decomposing. The small intestine is not one of the more proficient parts of the body for detoxification, especially when it's not working correctly and over'loaded' such as in people with SIBO. Even if safely disabling bacteria, this is important.  

I found that Mercola got on this 'bandwagon' this summer of 2015 with this June 22 article at the following link: articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/06/22/berberine-benefits.aspx [42]

Berberine is an important aspect to be bringing into the discussion here, in my opinion, and it's covered by Mercola -- the topic is titled about the benefits of berberine, as you'll see when you go read the entire article, which I encourage you do! Here's the introduction:

Berberine is a yellow-colored alkaloid compound found in several different plants, including European barberry, goldenseal, goldthread, Oregon grape, phellodendron, and tree turmeric.

Berberine has antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, and immune-enhancing properties. It’s effective against a wide range of bacteria, protozoa, and fungi. It can be used topically on cuts and other wounds, and it’s perhaps most commonly used to treat gastrointestinal issues, including traveller’s diarrhea and that from food poisoning.

However, what newer research is uncovering (and what traditional medicine has likely known for centuries) is that the benefits of berberine extend far beyond its antimicrobial properties. As reported in the Natural Medicine Journal:^{1 [43]}

“In recent years, the botanical extract berberine has been pushed from relative obscurity to front and center on our supplement shelves due to newly published research. Over a third of the approximately 2,800 studies on berberine listed on PubMed were published in the last 5 years. These studies reveal that berberine may have clinical applications in a range of conditions.” 

ANOTHER recipe, known in SIBO-knowing circles as "The SIBO Recipe" at this time (which I find likely to be confusing and will change) can be found at the link below. It entails baking soda, milk of magnesia, and zinc.  Here's the info 'nutshell' provided here in order to encourage taking the link, below the line and where I sign off, to go learn more how it fits together with the other information .... The info about THE Stuff that's at the root of the problems of most people with most conditions. 

---

 

It works by neutralizing hydrogen sulfide gas, a byproduct of sulfate reducing bacteria which is released in the intestines of those suffering from SIBO, colitis, IBS and other chronic inflammatory bowel diseases.

Recipe: 1/16 teaspoon of zinc oxide plus 1/2 teaspoon of milk of magnesia plus 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda in 1 glass of water taken twice a day.

Some immediate relief of ulcerative colitis should be experienced. The dose is not a perfect one, but it seems twice a day, once in the morning and once before bedtime is helpful.

If the remedy causes somewhat of a diarrhea or laxative effect, then one might reduce the milk of magnesium and baking soda by 1/2. 

Someone who had been utilizing this and doing research believes the remedy should be taken only 4 days out of a week, which should be generally be sufficient.  This 'pulsing' of things that people take is something I'm seeing more about recently -- letting the body normalize as much of anything that's not being taken or interacting in an ideally positive way. 

In people with autism and other chronic diseases, it is more widely recognized now that the intestines / guts are the 'scene of the crime'. One person reporting about the SIBO Recipe said "it has helped me tremendously in every way, pain, fatigue, bloat, brain fog etc. Tremendously. One of the best finds ever. And the dose is so low on all it should not affect anyone in a negative way"  It was suggested that for kids, reduce doses to half. Any nausea that occurs it is likely the zinc, cut back on that. 

Then another version of the SIBO Recipe started floating around which didn't include the zinc. 

This is the new way of things emerging to help with chronic illness -- the Internet has information, people try, change, post, and around it goes again. I'm jus

Live and learn. Learn and live better! ~ Mardy

PS -- FtsZ inhibitor is ALL explained at the topic at the following link, with many supportive links and information. 

Also, as you'll see at the bottom of the topic at the start of this thread: 

August 2015: I'm wanting to be sure that people see that there's NEW information at Lumigrate about SIBO, small intestinal bacteria overgrowth. Currently, the best place to get underway with what we have is at this link: www.lumigrate.com/forum/steve-his-images-his-protocol-and-facebook-group-community-and-other-resources-chronic-illness#comment-2876 [7]

This thread is the primary thread I'd prepared for diet for overall purposes ..... and I want everyone who has any kinds of concerns about their well-being to be aware you can be asymptomatic in terms of bloating with SIBO, it can be that a person is just without ideal elimination habits.

There is information which I lead the way to the experts providing, which helps sort candida overgrowth symptoms from SIBO, and there's a simple and apparently effective recipe provided to get people underway with turning the gas issue that's awry in the intestines around, using zinc, milk of magnesia, baking soda. Note, people, not other types of animals which can't have the zinc like we can. The motility of the intestines is also addressed with products or natural things such as pepperming (done in a specific manner), and so it's worth the study, this SIBO stuff. 

At this link, you'll find a great resource, in my opinion.  I encourage you to go see ALL that they offer, and want to provide a full example of what you'll find at this website. Bolding added by me for the ease of our YOUsers at Lumigrate.com to see the various bases or components discussed. 

modernherbalmedicine.com/articles/small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-(sibo).html [44]

Hydrogen is a powerful reductant that will do more than glutathione ever did; it is the fountain of life. Hydrogen does not knock out all of the free radicals; it is selective. Hydrogen can activate Nrf2 pathways. (Using) Cyberscan (http://www.cyberscanusa.com [50]) and (imprinting) into Restore (http://www.restore4life.com [51])(is discussed here).

There are (ideally) 30,000 different bugs in the intestinal flora. The sicker you are, the closer you may be to only 3,000. Restore stops gluten sensitivity, food sensitivity, restores tight junctions, and resolves inflammation. It promotes normal ecodiversity, increases bacterial breakdown of toxins, and helps to improve bio-availability of nutrients.

(Doing) 4 ounces of ASEA water and then 8 ounces of hydrogen water from a tablet (Active H2) after it has sat for 5 minutes (is something being done). - See more at:http://www.betterhealthguy.com/incurables... [52]

At the time of this additional comment in late August 2015 there had been just short of 4,000 reads of this topic.  165 beyond that on 9/12/2015 when further updating.